Re-Amp Anyone?

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 26 Nov 2006 6:59 am

I've been experimenting with this method and wondered if anyone here was doing it. Also, have any of you compared the Radial X-Amp with the original Reamp by John Cuniberti?

I'm wanting the freedom of experimenting with amps, settings, mic's and placement after I've cut the track. If you have tried this, do you think there is any loss as to what the tone would have been if it was recorded to mic's at the start?

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 26 Nov 2006 9:35 am

Randy, I use Ampfarm a lot.
And yes I LOVE being able to adjust the base sound further,
after the track is laid.

I have heard good things about these apps you mention.

As to losing something.
I have been very happy with much of the amp modeling.
And stacking duplicate tracks with different amp sounds
then mixing them together.

Well if you use tube preamps, especially the Revelation,
you should be able to capture the sound that triggers your amp exactly.

One Rev. side out to your amp, the other into the digital system.
If needed later, you could resend that track
back to your amp and then mic it. And record that sound.
With the freedom to move the mic for sound,
and not have band leakage too.

Another idea to use when using virtual amps.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 26 November 2006 at 09:37 AM.]

Bryan Daste · Post by **Bryan Daste** » 27 Nov 2006 10:09 pm

We have two of the Millennia TD-1 units:
http://www.mil-media.com/docs/products/td1.shtml

These have the Cuniberti ReAmp built in. I think it sounds just about as close as you can get to "the real thing." People have remarked how realistic it sounds...spooky, they say. Often I will record a direct signal as well as the player's live amp, and then I can ReAmp later if I want to. The TD-1, in addition to ReAmp capabilities, is a PRIMO mic pre and direct box - about as transparent as you can possibly get.

BTW, I often end up just going direct with steel and using EQs, delays, and Altiverb to sculpt my sound - no amps involved! Now that I got a Session 500 that may change.

------------------
Sierra "HJ Custom" D-10, Peavey Session 500, Goodrich L10k

Bob Martin · Post by **Bob Martin** » 29 Nov 2006 12:04 am

Randy, I use to reamp with Native Instruments guitar rig 2 but since I've got my Line 6 Pod Pro I sold my guitar rig 2 and now only use the Pod Pro exclusively for my lead guitar rig. I just posted a question/explanation about reamping thru the spdif in and out on the Pod Pro so we'll see if anyone else is doing it. So far I've been reamping thru the Pod Pro analog in's and outs and it has been very suitable for my needs but I've got the digital in's and out's why not use them. I have a feeling it will step up the quality a notch or 2.

I have found reamping to be one of the easiest ways to get a good tone for just about any instrument. I always send a dry signal to an extra track if there is any way to do it at all so I can rework it if needed.

I have found lot's of players (including me) just can't play unless they are hearing the exact amount of effects that they usually hear live. Well with folks that don't have digital effects with extra outs that's kind of hard to do so I usually let them record with any tone they desire and I try to grab a dry signal thu a direct box connected from their speaker out or actually any place I can grab one that way I can reamp them later in the mix.

Well have fun and remember if you're not having fun in the studio it's time for a break

Bob

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 29 Nov 2006 1:16 pm

The Re-Amp idea is a good thing. Getting those kinds of levels all attenuated and impedances matched is a good thing. If you have to attenuate in the computer, you'll probably be sacrificing bit-resolution as you attenuate, not to mention the impedance mis-match and ground isolation issues. I've heard that the Radial is also a good one.

Most of us know that Jensen Transformers are pretty much as good as they get. Jensen makes a transformer for this application, and they also offer a schematic to build one. Here's the link. I think the transformers are $70 direct from Jensen.

JT-11P-1 Transformer
http://www.jensentransformers.com/as/as092.pdf
http://www.jensentransformers.com/prices.html

Brad

Gary Shepherd · Post by **Gary Shepherd** » 30 Nov 2006 10:26 pm

I tried "NI Guitar Rig" version one on this tune.
http://16tracks.com/songs/AMillionTears.mp3

A buddy had the original tracks to the song (which he wrote) that he recorded in a session in California. He brought the hard drive back to me here in OK and I added the pedal steel track. I went straight into the board - no amp of FX.

I never got the sound I wanted (and I played everything pretty sloppily) but he was happy with it. It was just a demo anyway.

------------------
Gary Shepherd

Carter D-10

www.16tracks.com

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 1 Dec 2006 6:44 am

Bob and Gary, the reamp technique I'm referring to is where you take a direct signal and record it, then output it at a later time to your amplifier of choice, then mic and record that sound. This way you can experiment with mic's and their placement as well as different amps and settings after you have recorded the track.

I think what you are referring to is software based amp modeling.

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 1 Dec 2006 6:57 am

I have an original ReAmp that I use a lot, and it works wonderfully. I use it primarily to reamp DIed bass guitar--there seldom seems to be space at tracking sessions to mic a bass cab (though Michael Rhodes has a pretty cool seat that incorporates a speaker built in to not only give him the physical feel of an amp, but has a built in mic to pick up the speaker). I have also used it on guitars a lot, but have never tried it on steel (I guess cause I generally mic it to begin with).

Bob Martin · Post by **Bob Martin** » 1 Dec 2006 7:00 am

Hey Randy, that's right I guess the point I was wanting to make is once you get your dry signal on a track you can do anything you want to with it.

The process you're speaking about has been around as long as their have been multi track recorders and Mics. I love to re-amp both ways. The way you're talking about has been widely used for many years and I'll bet we'd be surprised how many great sounding steel guitar tracks started out as a dry track with the intention of re-amping it.

It's just now that I have the technology not to lose another generation of the original dry track I've been trying to learn how to do it.

Sorry for the intrusion and mixup. In all the excitement of seeing another post about re-amping I just didn't take enough time to understand your post was talking about running thru a recorded dry track then back thru another live amp and Mic rather than the newer digital way. My Bad but maybe someday you'll want to try this way and at least you'll have some reference to it

Good luck!

Bob

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 1 Dec 2006 8:41 am

No problem Bob. Not a mixup at all. Actually a concern of mine is losing something in the conversion where keeping it in the digital domain like you are doesn't. I'm not sure any of the modeled amp sounds will get me what I want. I love to hear that punchy sound of air hitting a mic, then fed back into a mic pre of our choice.

There are so many variables I may never make up my mind on what I want.

Bob Martin · Post by **Bob Martin** » 2 Dec 2006 1:43 pm

Well Randy, speaking from experience you will lose some quality re-amping the analog way. How much you lose will depend on the quality of your recorder 1 and your quality of getting it to tape in the 1st place 2 and of course the quality of the 2nd recording 3.

Back in my early days of recording I had a 1/4 tape machine that turned at 7.5 ips and re-amping on it was almost not worth doing, but me being stubborn like I am I would record the very hottest and cleanest signal the 1st time around and then sometimes I would end up with an acceptable re-amped track but it seems like it was a lot of hit and miss with the 7.5 ips machine.

Then I graduated to 15ips and it made a big improvement but I still had to be careful and get it to tape at a very hot level. Well then I finally graduated to 30ips and then it was sooooo much better. As long as I even 1/2 way got it to tape in good shape the 1st time around it worked fine.

Well then came digital and believe it or not analog re-amping even thru a digital machine takes some work to get the 2nd generation to sound as good or almost as good as the 1st but it surely can be done with a little work and trial.

I'm assuming you will be re-amping the analog way with a digital machine?? If so if you compare the 2 signals that you get to the hard drive you can hear a little difference in the high end and mids but it's still very acceptable. Good luck and let us know how you come out.

Oh one more thing I never thought I could be happy with a simulated miked cab from any manufacturer but I finally found a unit that made me very happy (Pod Pro) and I'm so happy not to be dealing with all the hassles of analog re-amping. I'm not saying you'll ever find one that will make you happy but I am saying that technology is getting closer every day. Some technology actually uses a digital recording of miked amps to get the simulated digital version of a miked cab. (if that makes any sense to ya) Technology is going nuts

Bob

Jay Fagerlie · Post by **Jay Fagerlie** » 3 Dec 2006 7:51 am

Hey Bryan, I am glad someone brought up the TD-1.
These things are great. So much power packed into one box. They will work for just about anything and sound great doing it.
I suppose I should say right now that I do work at Millennia, but that doesn't change my opinion any.
As a matter of fact, the TD-1 is a product that I myself will soon own...(I just need another recording project to come up to justify buying one)
Maybe my bands next CD.....
Jay

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 4 Dec 2006 4:28 pm

Randy,
Check this Mix mag. review
http://mixonline.com/products/review/audio_millennia_td_twindirect/

You can record in a variety of ways , and record thru a reamp situation at the same time recording an amp/mic situation ...You can then mix and match ...You'll have the punch of analog as well as whatever effect tracks you want to add or take away ...You will not record much cleaner than using the Millenia pre on the solid state end ...They are probably in the top 3 cleanest pre's on the market...You can't go wrong here ...Jim

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 5 Dec 2006 5:01 am

Uh... Jay, any way you can get the "Forum Bros" a discount?

Just kiddin' but seriously...[This message was edited by Randy Beavers on 05 December 2006 at 05:04 AM.]

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 5 Dec 2006 12:55 pm

The Millennia stuff is ridiculously clean, and is very quiet at very high gain settings. I had a 4 channel mic pre of theirs for a while. Even thru a plain old SM57, the detail was unlike anything I'd ever heard. With that mic pre, my beat up old SM57 could hear a spider fart from over 20 feet away.

Brad

Bryan Daste · Post by **Bryan Daste** » 6 Dec 2006 2:07 pm

A quick story about Millennia Media...Jay, you'll appreciate this.

Millennia is known for making THE cleanest, purest, most transparent gear available today. I met Millennia head John LaGrou a few years back when my old studio was recording the Tower of Power horn section for a CA State Fair ad. John came by to lend some gear (and ears), and just to hang out for a fun session.

Let me tell you, this man's personality matches his gear's personality! Very mild mannered, likeable, no-nonsense, down to earth guy - super 'clean.' No 'distortion.' He offered me some white tea he had recently gotten from China, and it was the mildest, purest most subtly flavored tea I've ever tried.

I can see why his company's gear sounds the way it does!

------------------
Sierra "HJ Custom" D-10, Peavey Session 500, Goodrich L10k[This message was edited by Bryan Daste on 06 December 2006 at 02:08 PM.]

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 6 Dec 2006 4:17 pm

Hey Randy ....Don't be shy !!...

......

How's about it Jay ....Maybe you can talk to the powers that be into a "group buy" and we can order a few of them ???.....That would work for me !!.....Jim

Jay Fagerlie · Post by **Jay Fagerlie** » 7 Dec 2006 6:01 am

Let's get some real numbers here, guys
How many would we really be talking about?

I'll bring it up to the powers that be, they can either go for it, or send me to the 'rack'....and I don't mean the place you mount rack gear!....

Jay

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 7 Dec 2006 7:36 am

Jay,
Thanks for entertaining our/my hopes....I'm good for one unit if the price drops considerably ....Thanks again, Jim

How's about it Randy ??.....Dig deep guys , this is a great sounding unit ....Highly reccomended !!.....Jim

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 7 Dec 2006 8:08 am

I doubt Millennia would lower them enough that I'd be interested. Sweetwater sells them for a little over $1500.00 with their discount. My only use would be for the re-amp function and there are a few units that do this for under $200.00. I have a TAB-Funkenwerks tube mic pre that would be very hard to beat.