Shortening Excel Scale Length with new neck?

[Christopher Hillman]

I was thinking the other day about how I've struggled for years with string breakage on my Excel (Keyless) U-12. Theres a lot of info here on this being a more common problem with these guitars so I wont go into it in massive detail but, I used to use George L's Reinforced 11s which are now discontinued and yet to find a suitable replacement string.

My questions is has anyone here bought a new neck from Excel and taken it from 25 1/2" to 24 1/2" ? There doesnt seem to be any photos of a dismantled Excel but I'm guessing with a new neck butted up to the pickup routing you could re-drill the two bolt holes for the head stock to the desired 24 1/2" ?

I have read how tensions on keyless guitars are less than keyed but the fact of the matter is even Mitsuo doesnt recommend ordering the longer scale length these days.

Other than this problem its an amazing Guitar, sounds way better than my other Steels so maybe this is a way of future proofing it.
Interested to hear thoughts on this. Oh and by the way when the string breaks it doesnt break on the bridge, more in mid air.

Heres some photos of the Headstock, Neck and under the headstock.

Screenshot 2026-01-07 at 11.04.51.png

Screenshot 2026-01-07 at 11.05.02.png

Screenshot 2026-01-07 at 11.05.12.png

[Toshiyuki Shoji]

When I was working at Excel, I did this modification only once—replacing the neck of a Superb model of the same type as yours with a 616 mm (24 1/4") scale neck.

It’s not impossible, but it was a very involved and time-consuming job.
Also, your guitar’s headstock is fitted with the anti-cabinet-drop system, correct? That adds another layer of complexity to the work.

As a first and much simpler step, I recommend trying a D’Addario NYS011 for the 3rd string only.

For reference, I personally own the same type of 25 1/2" scale Superb model, and I use it tuned down a half step, which has worked well for me.

[Christopher Hillman]

Thanks for your reply Toshiyuki ! Great to get some first hand knowledge !

Mine does have the anti cabinet-drop system but I have it set so it doesnt do anything currently, I thought maybe I wouldnt replace it if I did this conversion.

Out of intrest does the neck slide in-between the Red arrows or is the whole thing 1 piece ?

Screenshot 2026-01-07 at 17.30.11.png

Other than tuning down and the string are there any other ways to fix the string breakages on these Excels? I will try the D’Addario NYS011

Its my main Guitar so hopefully once I get something that can take over for a while I can start to play with this even if it Is just trying different strings.

[Ian Rae]

For what it may be worth, Chris, I use GHS strings as originally fitted. With the 3rd string I proceed with extreme caution, putting plenty of turns round the post and bringing the tension up part way, leaving it overnight and finishing the next day. Not much use if you have a gig that night.

[Dennis Detweiler]

I haven't broken any strings in several years. I use SIT.

[Christopher Hillman]

For what it may be worth, Chris, I use GHS strings as originally fitted. With the 3rd string I proceed with extreme caution, putting plenty of turns round the post and bringing the tension up part way, leaving it overnight and finishing the next day. Not much use if you have a gig that night.

Thanks Ian, yeah i usually have to let it sit a bit but most of them snap before getting to tension if they're going to break. Sounds like yours has a different set up to mine? The ball end is at the headstock on this one. You have to pull it tight before clamping it (to around C#) then bring it the rest of the way up with the headstock tuner.

[Steve Lipsey]

Pete Burak came lip with a clever solution for his Excel...tune down a half step and simply replace the fingerboard with one with the fret 3/5/7 etc. markings moved one fret up....(he could probably tell you where he got the new board).
So it is intuitively easy to play and has the other advantage that former notes at the nut move to the first fret....easier to do and add vibrato, etc.

[Toshiyuki Shoji]

The neck of your Excel has the shape shown in this image.
It is not integrated with the large changer holder; however, the neck is not designed to slide.

For this neck, the large changer holder—made from a casting—was first machined, then measured precisely, and the neck was fabricated based on those measurements.

The position markers on the fretboard of my Excel, which I attached earlier, are placed one fret higher than normal.
Because of this, even with half-step-down tuning, it can be played with the same feel as E9 tuning.

[Pete McAvity]

Toshiyuki, thank you so much for weighing in. Christopher & I discussed this a few years ago. I have a circa 2010 Superb D10 (per Fujisan) that has the same issue. I in no way blame the maker, I know its the limitation of physics at play, along with the phenomenon of the quality of metal used for strings (streaks of breakage of unwound strings tend to ebb and flow, I've come to understand).

I have tried the NYXL .011- broke like nearly every other string. Had success w/ SITs until a few years ago, then couldn't get an .011 to stay alive at pitch.

Sonny Jenkins did his own shortening mod w/ a new 24.5" scale fretboard he purchased from Excel & documented it here:

viewtopic.php?t=390956&highlight=excel+++scale

I think I will end up dropping everything a 1/2 step w/a fretboard overlay as Steve suggested & improve my quality of life. I change strings fairly regularly, but have left the high G# on for over a year fearing I won't be able to get another one to survive.

[Larry Allen]

My 3 Superbs (2 1/4”)S10s, never break any strings. NYXL. .012 for 3rd.. I play pretty hard…..back when I used Cobras then Live strings the 3rd was a breaker 0.11,.0115, .012..

[Pete McAvity]

Pete Burak came lip with a clever solution for his Excel...tune down a half step and simply replace the fingerboard with one with the fret 3/5/7 etc. markings moved one fret up....(he could probably tell you where he got the new board).
So it is intuitively easy to play and has the other advantage that former notes at the nut move to the first fret....easier to do and add vibrato, etc.

Heya, all. Solution in the works. I got confirmation from Pete Burak that the fretboard he obtained some time ago from Mitsuo allows him to detune to Eb, with the first fret functioning as a "zero" fret: "E", so everything walks out the same visually as the original fretboard from there. Toshiyuki Shoji has kindly put the works in motion for a prototype to be created for me. Anyone having this issue w/ their 25.5' Excel, reach out to Mr. Shoji. He will need some specs from you as Mitsuo made changes constantly & dimensions varied from guitar to guitar, but this is a viable solution. I should be able to throw a .012 on once I'm able to detune a half step!

[J D Sauser]

I wouldn't do it.
I have a 24" scale and several 25" Excel Superbs.
I keep the 24" only as a travel guitar because she is ultra compact, so much, that in a soft pouch, I can bring the body on board on the airplane. But she sounds very much inferior to her 25" cousins.

String breakage? As I said, I have three 25" Superbs and a 25" "NEW"-Sierra. None break strings more than any other PSG I have or had. But I will also admit that the OP is NOT the first one venting his frustration over popping more strings than expected. I don't believe that I am lucky so let me suggest this:

- most KEYED PSG's strings, the pesky 3rd string with certainty, will always be LONGER than any strings on a keyless 25" and even 25 1/2" PSG. The longer the string length, the higher the tension. This is why most keyless PSG have longer scales.

- keep your instrument clean.

- watch for burrs at both ends (changer & keyless tuner ends). Steel strings on aluminum fingers WILL generate scratches and burrs as well as some residue. I use an eraser hard rubber pen (one which was popular for drafting) as a soft polishing tool.
My first keyless was a factory new Sierra Session... and the keyless tuning fingers which had not been de-burred at all, just cut thru o.o11's like butter. I had to take them all out and soften their top edge and I had no problem ever since,

- Years ago I have observed violin players putting graphite on their instruments' nut and bridge, to allow for strings to move and stretch across them with ease (graphite which can be "painted" on with a very soft "artists" (HB or ideally softer). Graphite pensil acts as a lubricant which does not adversely affect wood nor aluminum). I use it on ALL my instruments (Selmer style Gypsy Jazz acoustic steel string guitars and all steel guitars) with good results. It's a little messy but oil free.

IF really you feel you need to go to 24"... I would rather sell the 25" guitar and buy another with the shorter scale before "butchering" a perfectly great guitar. But then, it's not my guitar. So, that's just a suggestion to contemplate.

... J-D.

[Sonny Jenkins]

20240329_081314(1).jpg

As some of you remember,,,,I bought a used 12 string Excell about 4 years ago,,,,lived through 6 months nightmare breaking 3rd strings,,, most of the time couldn't even get up to pitch, tried them all including NYXL.011s. Finally jumped in, cut it down to 24.25, ordered a new fretboard from Mitsuo,,,,couldn't be happier with outcome,,,,anyone would have difficulty telling that it had been modified. I posted pics back then,,,about 3 years ago,,,do a search,,,had lots of positive comments,,,looks great,,,never broke a string since

viewtopic.php?t=390956&hilit=post+by+Sonny+Jenkins

This is a link to the thread with a pic of my modified neck,,,,of course the pic is before I put the new fretboard on,,,and a couple of other little things that made it look more original.

I had posted more pics of the finished product later but I can't seem to find that thread,,,,maybe someone else can

[Sonny Jenkins]

I've found,,,and added a picture of my "butchered" shortened scale length. I have trouble adding pics on this newer forum format,,,so if it shows too big,,,or multiple,,,forgive me,,,,LOL

20240329_081314(1).jpg

[J D Sauser]

I've found,,,and added a picture of my "butchered" shortened scale length. I have trouble adding pics on this newer forum format,,,so if it shows too big,,,or multiple,,,forgive me,,,,LOL20240329_081314(1).jpg

Forgiven of course!

And by the way: My hat to you! Not too bad at all for a butcher board! (sorry couldn’t resist, I’m a scorpion)

Humor asside:
I still wonder, why some have these string popping issues while others don’t on these long scales axes, and THAT without any sarcasm … JD

[Mike Vallandigham]

I'm convinced that the problem is the angle created by the headstock tuning finger as you crank it almost to the stop to take up the slack.

That third string is like a rubber band and you quickly get that finger all the way forward.

Anything you can do to keep that tuning finger closer to it's base position helps - prestretching the string and getting it as tight as you can before locking it down and tuning up.

Every string I broke on my '25" Excel was broke up at the headstock, right where the tight radius of the finger exists.

That and make sure there are no burrs or sharp edges.

[J D Sauser]

I'm convinced that the problem is the angle created by the headstock tuning finger as you crank it almost to the stop to take up the slack.

Every string I broke on my '25" Excel was broke up at the headstock, right where the tight radius of the finger exists.

Can others confirm that?

I have 4 generations of Excels. One of the earlier Excels (actually the first one switching from E9th to C6th instead of B6th, made for Carl Dixon.

ALL have a different Keyless Tuner and some variation of the 5R/4 or 5L changer.
Look, I am NOT a brand endorser ("my Excel, blah blah..."), but I haven't had a problem with strings popping more than on any traditional key-head 24 1/4" scale PSG on any of those. But I HAVE read about some complaining of not being able to keep an E9th G# (typically pumped to A all the time) in place now several times.
Sierra keyless guitars of the 90's and earlier 2000's were 25" scale too, and except for the fact that some had issues stringing them up, popping G#s wasn't a big subject either. We read more about people having a hard time to keep then ON some older PushPulls.
The new "Ross"-Sierras are 25" too... no complaints there either.

So... on Excels, which are probably the most widely sold 25" scale keyless guitars over the past 20 years, we seem to find this problem on some, but a notable number.
One thing which has always fascinated me about M. Fuji, is that he never seemed to settle on a design, always trying something new... MAYBE better, some not so?

Can we narrow down WHERE the strings pop the most and then get an idea what generation or design the particular changer or keyless tuner is?

... J-D.

[Bobby D. Jones]

If strings are breaking where bent over changer finger or in a keyless head.
What can be the problem. When a of Piano wire/guitar string is bent and breaks, The string breaks into 3 pieces, The 2 large pieces that are easy to see. A little V shaped piece can break off too. If it is in contact with aluminum, And sticks in the aluminum. And a new string is placed over the little wedge of broken string. Will damage and weaken the the new string very quickly. Causing it to break also.