Success Stories Using Smaller Tube Amps?

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 24 May 2003 9:03 am

In the 25+ years I've been playing steel guitar, like most of you guys, I have tried just about every type of amp. My first amp used with steel was a Fender Super reverb. Later I used a Bassman, then a Vibrosonic and then a series of solid state amps. Somehow I was never satisfied with the SS sound. I have recently been using a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe with great success--I feel like I'm "back in the saddle" with great sparkling tone and sweet reverb.

I usually play with my 4-piece swing band that has no drummer so the 40-watt HR Deluxe is ample power. Last night I used it with Texas Fever, a pretty revved up country-rock band and I was pleasantly surprised to find it did a great job.

A few qualifiers: (1) At high volume, it does distort slightly but you have to push this baby pretty hard and when you do, it's too loud for my wimpy ears. (2) I don't play C6, though I do play a B6 universal and I get down on the low E and B notes plenty. (3) I do enhance the sound with a Boss GE-7 equalizer which I use to pump up the lows. Still, the amp sounds fantastic.

I'll gladly live with the minute amount of occasional distortion to get that great tone, AND not have to lug around a 90 lb. Twin Reverb (the HR Deluxe weighs half that amt).

For now, I have parked the rack gear with the 15" EV and am stoked about this little Fender. I'm wondering now how good it would sound with a JBL, BW or other quality speaker plus the new Jan Phillips tubes.

BTW, I'm not knocking Peavey products per se. I understand they make great tube amps and pre-amps as well.

Anybody else having this epiphany re great tube amps?
--JR

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 24 May 2003 9:35 am

I like the sound of small tube amps...for practice. But if you mike 'em through a good PA, you just can't get really "solid" bass. Every once in awhile, I like the "Chalker" sound, and no small amp (umder 50 watts) will cut it.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 24 May 2003 9:54 am

For the last couple years I haven't played through an amp with over 35 watts.

I have an old Fender Deluxe and a new THD Bi-Valve.

Donny,
I was wondering what Curly Chalker played through to his sound ? Did he need a big SS amp ?

Bob

Roger Shackelton · Post by **Roger Shackelton** » 24 May 2003 10:36 am

BOB

I believe Curly Chalker used a pair of Peavey Session 400 amps.

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 24 May 2003 12:11 pm

I've been playing with a band that does '30's and '40's standards and using a THD BiValve which gives me the "silk with whiskers" sound that fits in so well with that era. I used to rely on a '59 Standel, but I decided that I didn't want to take an antique out, other than myself, to play for tips.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 25 May 2003 2:29 am

John. I too latey have been using my Hot Rod Deluxe with a small Fender 12" extension cab.

The gigs are small rooms, low to moderate volume , where they ask you to turn down before you even set up .. I use the HRD for my Tele and Steel and don't carry two amps anymore..

The tone is fine, a little on the bright side but I can control that. I have not had any volume / headroom issues with the one exception of playing on the lower ten using the #8 pedal with the Boo-Whaaa phrase..Not that big of a deal though..it's not a concert or a session..it's a $65 gig...
where people dance to Louie Louie...

I have come to use the HRD pretty much all the time now on these gigs..

Sadly the N1000 sits alone..under a cover ..at home in the garage...but it will have its day...it always does...

tp[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 25 May 2003 at 03:50 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 25 May 2003 9:34 am

Fender's Hot Rod Deluxe has the same amount of power as my little Mesa/Boogie Maverick prototype. I use the Boogie for bar and winery gigs and it works just great. Plenty loud!

I recently lightened it up with a Tone Tubby speaker, and I have an extension cabinet with another Tone Tubby. (Anyone wanna buy a 20-year-old EVM?

) The Tone Tubbies are rated at 25 watts, and they sound really sweet. With two of them, I'm safely handling all of the power the amp can produce.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 25 May 2003 2:45 pm

Can you fit a 15" speaker in a Hot Rod Deluxe?

I play half my gigs (E9 only) with a '68 Fender Deluxe Reverb with an old JBL D-120 12" in it. That 24 watt amp with the efficiency of the JBL is very loud. It's great for small bars and for getting a little tube drive in the tone. The sound of a Fender/JBL breaking up is a very clean type of distortion and the notes dont seem to get lost in the overdrive like with other setups. BUT, that rig just will not do the fat bottom end. I agree that you need watts to create solid bass. I dont think 12" speakers are as well voiced right for that beef either. Although I've heard a 2-12" JBL loaded Twin that was pretty beefy sounding. That Chalker sound is 420 watts and 2-15" speakers (2 Session 400's) right?

I've been wanting to try either an old Fender Pro-Reverb with a 15" in it or a Hot Rod Deluxe with a 15". Two 6L6GC power tubes are pretty loud if you sit close enough and the band isn't too loud.

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Brad Sarno
Blue Jade Audio Mastering
St. Louis

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 25 May 2003 4:30 pm

...I had a Hot Rod Deluxe, that I bought nearly new for $350, but like an idiot, I sold it. I didn't really like the amp for steel or acoustic, but it sounded great with a Tele..it's a matter of taste, of course...even so, it would have made a great practice amp for the steel, and easy to move...I don't believe the cabinet will accomodate a 15" speaker, but you can hook one up outboard...

Cartwright Thompson · Post by **Cartwright Thompson** » 26 May 2003 1:49 am

If you can find one, check out a Carr Rambler. One inch taller than a Princeton, very light and unbelieveable tone. More bass response and clean headroom than should be possible in such a small package.
They ain't cheap though.....

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 26 May 2003 7:02 am

As I posted earlier, the HRD doesn't work for everyone under all conditions. Like Bobby Lee, I play small outdoor parties at moderate volumes and small clubs or restaurants.

Last night I heard Redd Volkeart with Jim Murphy at the Continental Club. It was hot lick heaven, but my 40 watt Fender probably wouldn't have been up to that sound level. Those guys burned--my ears are still ringing! Incredible playing though.

Tonight I'm playing at the Convention Center on a large stage with a large sound system. I'm going to try out the Fender and see what happens. I'll probably point it straight at me, like a monitor and let the system handle the gain. The audience shouldn't have any trouble hearing me since it'll be miked. We'll see, I might have my rack rig on standby just in case.

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 26 May 2003 7:16 am

I did read on this forum that Lloyd Green uses a Hot Rod Deluxe with a JBL 15" so the speaker will fit the cabinet. It's starting to get kinda heavy though!

About the brightness, true it's a little bright for steel. The way I make it work is using my Boss GE-7 equalizer. It's really the key to good tone. I boost the two low bands up about 80%, drop the mids and bring up the last two high bands in varying configurations. It's a great tool, I've used it for many years on lots of amps. If you really punch some low chords or notes, sure it'll break a little. That's how I know when that I'm too loud!

By the way, that same setting works beautifully for my D-28 acoustic with the Fishman pickup. For electric guitar, I have to flatten out the settings and boost the highs plus adjust the reverb and delay. Still beats hauling two amps!

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 26 May 2003 7:33 am

I'm pretty sure that Lloyd set the record straight on that---he put the 15" speaker in a larger cabinet (now I can't remember--was it an extension cab or did he have the whole thing, chassis and all, put in a bigger box?).

Jeff A. Smith · Post by **Jeff A. Smith** » 26 May 2003 7:42 pm

A friend of mine, Ed Miller, submitted a thread recently that asked about Mr. Green's choice of Fender amps. I couldn't find it in a search, but as I remember, Lloyd uses an extension cabinet and just runs a cord from the amp section of the combo amp he's using. Someone correct me if I didn't read this thread close enough a month or two ago.

I also noticed in my search where he cleared up some confusion by saying that he still intended to use Nashville 1000's for live shows. The tube Fenders were for the studio only.

[This message was edited by Jeff A. Smith on 26 May 2003 at 08:46 PM.]

Chris DeBarge · Post by **Chris DeBarge** » 27 May 2003 6:01 am

70's Deluxe Reverb is enough for me. The two bands I play steel in are very low volume, and besides I'm usually mic'ed so the amp is more of an onstage monitor. The sound is nice and warm, sure there's a little grit sometimes, but I like that 50's and 60's sound.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 27 May 2003 8:34 am

Another vote for the THD BiValve. For loud country gigs I sometimes use a Showman (an old one), but the BiValve (at around 30-40 watts) is plenty lound for the gigs I do.

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www.tyack.com

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 27 May 2003 10:28 am

Actually folks, the Hot Rod Deluxe cabinet will not allow a 15" speaker to be installed. There is not enough room . The size and shape of the Electronics and the way it is installed in the cabinet will not allow for a larger speaker, especially one with a larger magnet. I did read where Lloyd responded to the use of the Hot Rod Deluxe with a 15" speaker..it was an extension cab. But hey..stranger modifications have happened I supposed...

tp

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 31 May 2003 9:22 am

The Convention Center went great but I copped out and used my rack rig with the 15" EV. It turns out the band hired a fiddle player, when I arrived he was already set up on my right with his Peavey Reonown 2X12" amp and with David on the left honking thru his Fender 75 (often running wide open) I opted to go with the bigger rig. There was a space issue too, I didn't have room to position the HR Deluxe around front, everything went on the backline. It still may have worked, the monitors were incredible. Kudos to AVW, the sound and video company who did the sound. Their crew was top notch, easy to work with. Those monitors were EAW speakers and they pack a lot of sound in a small package. Very clear and clean.

The HR Deluxe may have worked perfect since those monitors were so effecient and the crew dialed up a mix for each band member.

We had another pleasant surprise last night. Played an outdoor gig in a large back yard. Instead of lugging the big Yamaha mains with the "15's we set the monitors up on stands behind us, no floor monitors. These babies worked very well. These monitors are home-made (by me) using 12" Peavey BW speakers with piezo tweeters. Very effecient speakers, I'm a believer in BW's. I may have to pop one in the HR Deluxe. Ought to wake that little amp up--could clean up the low freqs considerably.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 31 May 2003 9:26 am

"Instead of lugging the big Yamaha mains with the "15's we set the monitors up on stands behind us, no floor monitors."

Hey John,
'Round here we call that setup "Main-itors"!

~pb[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 31 May 2003 at 10:27 AM.]

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 31 May 2003 10:11 pm

Here's a link to the Lloyd Green post.

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 1 Jun 2003 5:26 am

It may be solid stae but, the new Evans SE200 is one heck of an amp. It weighs 39 pounds and is rated at 200 watts. It's the best amp I ever owned. By the way I like tubes too, but don't like the hassle with the tubes.

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1985 Emmons push-pull,Evans SE200

[This message was edited by Craig A Davidson on 01 June 2003 at 06:29 AM.]

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 1 Jun 2003 8:54 am

Craig, I've heard good things about Evans amps and I think they make a smaller 150W amp. 39 lbs. sounds great to me, the HR weighs about 45 lbs. There are some hybrid amps that might be considered, Pignose has a 60W amp I'm interested in.

It's fun to watch the technology evolve. My rack rig is a hybrid-- Tube Works tube pre-amp and Gallien-Krueger SS power amp. It's not as powerful as the Peavey steel amps but has been enough for me. I may replace the EV 15" with a Peavey BW to see if that firms up the lows--going from 8 ohms to 4.

As you can tell, I'm of the "less is more" school of audio gear. My back ain't getting any stronger. After the setup of the PA and my steel rig I feel worked before I play the first note. Not having to hoist those 90 lb. mains is a large relief. --JR

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 1 Jun 2003 1:38 pm

John, The SE200 also has digital reverb that is to die for. No more outboard effects for me. Just my guitar, amp, and seat. I like it!
Duane Dunard of Duane's Music in Troy Mo. is where I got mine and the back-up support from him is fabulous.

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1985 Emmons push-pull,Evans SE200