Tube Amp for steel?

Wayne Wallett · Post by **Wayne Wallett** » 15 Mar 2001 5:41 pm

From been there... done that for 40 years. I have owned Fender Vibrosonic, Super Reverb W/15 JBL, Fender Blues Deluxe reissue w/15 JBL replacement, PV Nashville 400, Webb, and (2) Evans amps.
One Evans in 80s was a real dog, one I have now is great. Webb is great, and for those jobs which don't require moving the rear wall the Fender Blues Deluxe is sweet.
I cut a CD 6 months ago with Evans run direct into board and I defy anyone to tell me its a solid state by listening to it. Personal preference but I say both are good...don't care much for Peaveys unless reworked though. later...tater...
Wayne

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 15 Mar 2001 7:46 pm

it all depends on what YOU want to hear coming out of YOUR amp. Whatever amp gives YOU THAT, USE IT.

I have indeed heard great sound from great players using SS amps.
But for what I want to hear coming off my corner of the stage it's Fender Tube Amplification

<img src="http://www.voicenet.com/~vanallen/pix/l ... WIDTH="500" HEIGHT="572"</img>


disclaimer: this is a picture of Lloyd Green "back in the day", not me. It also shows him using an approx. 1968 Fender Twin Reverb Amp with what appears to be a JBL 15" speaker in it (which is remarkably like my own TR). My understanding is that Mr Green used an amp similar to this to record "Live at Panther Hall" with Mr Charlie Pride. As far as I know Mr Green has not used an amp like this recently, yet somehow he still sounds remarkably like Lloyd Green. I however, although using an amp like the one pictured above, most assuredly do NOT sound like Lloyd Green. Although I do get a sound that I love to hear coming from my side of the stage, a sound that inspires me to try things I might otherwise not, however foolhardy it may turn out...

[This message was edited by Dave Van Allen on 20 March 2001 at 11:19 AM.]

Ricky Littleton · Post by **Ricky Littleton** » 16 Mar 2001 6:33 am

Jeff, give me a call at 1-866-379-0000 and we'll talk about tubes.

Glad to be any help I can.

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Emmons LeGrande - 8x4
Session 400 Ltd
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Dan-Echo, E-Bow

Tele · Post by **Tele** » 16 Mar 2001 3:44 pm

Jeffstro, it's like a Ferrari...you won't rev it up to 8000u/min until the oil is hot...but you wouldn't have to wait more than just a couple of minutes. Get yourself a nice Fender Twin - I'm pretty sure you like it...

Andy

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Steve Feldman · Post by **Steve Feldman** » 16 Mar 2001 8:42 pm

Sage advice:

You have to heat up the pan before you put in the meat....

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 19 Mar 2001 7:52 pm

Who's that up there in the big black&white picture? Is that you, Dave V? It almost looks like Lloyd Green.

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 20 Mar 2001 7:00 am

It's indeed Lloyd Green. Hasn't used a tube amp in years. One of my happiest moments came in '76 when I discovered my Session 400 Ltd. I had been lugging around a Twin with JBL's in it and everytime I dug into the C6th. neck it would crap out. The LTD was 30 lbs. lighter, lots of overhead, and I loved the sound. Back then they were being distributed in Canada and they cost $1600! Thank God Peavey dropped that distributer and it's prices.
By the way, nothing against tube amps in general. I tried a Vibrasonic (sp?) a few years ago at a showcase and it was pretty good, but still didn't have the headroom of my Nashville 400. Definitely a little sweeter, but in a live situation, there's a lot of other factors in play.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 20 Mar 2001 10:12 am

I sure am relieved to know that when I play through my tube amp I have "good tone," and when I play through my solid state amp I sound like... what was it?... oh yeah, "dry dog turds."

I guess we all should just quit working on chops, note choice and correct hand technique, and just go out and get a Fender amp, huh?

If only "good sound" were that simple, dudes, we'd all be little Buddy Emmonses (well-known user of dry dog turd amplifiers, and the musical superior of everyone on this thread), wouldn't we?

A good player will get "good tone," and a player that sucks will get "sucky tone," regardless of amplifier, assuming the amp is one designed for steel. It's in your hands and heart, kiddos, not at the music store.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 20 March 2001 at 10:29 AM.]

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 20 Mar 2001 11:28 am

please note the disclaimer added to my above post. also please note the first line of the post:

it all depends on what YOU want to hear coming out of YOUR amp. Whatever amp gives YOU THAT, USE IT.

Maestroes Emmons and Green et al seem to do just fine with their choices; solid state, vintage tube, martian energy crystal, whatever; and as Herb has so eloquently pointed out, amplification is not the end all and be all of steel guitar "tone quests".

For instance in another thread, Herb intimated that a particular "sound" he had admired and searched and strived to emulate for years turned out to (at least partially) reside in a particular make of steel guitar (Bigsby) as well as in his hands and heart.

that's all I meant. I don't care WHAT you use as long as it makes YOU happy.

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"I AM ZUMBODY!"

Zumsteel U12 "Loafer" 8&6 :: Fender T-8 Stringmaster :: Fender Tube Amplification
www.voicenet.com/~vanallen/ :: vanallen@voicenet.com

funny... there's a sound I admire and have strived for years to emulate on pedal steel... but it seems to reside (at least partially) in a Hammond B3 organ run thru a Leslie cabinet...

[This message was edited by Dave Van Allen on 20 March 2001 at 11:44 AM.]

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 20 Mar 2001 1:26 pm

Dave
I do recognize a certain inconsistency in one post I wrote from the other

. Yes, there are definite differences in sounds between tubes and solid state, just as there are between PP's and AP's, Fenders and Bigsbys, etc. If you want a particular sound, frequently you do have to go with the equipment that produces that sound.

Yes, I found the Bigsby sound when I finally found a Bigsby, but it didn't make me say that "Fender/Emmons/Sho-Bud/whatever sounds like crap."

Not only is that wrong-headed thinking, it backhandedly insults the judgement of great players who DON'T use the equipment being paraded as "best."

What I don't dig or agree with are statements that say for one type of equipment to be "good," in this case tube amplification, another type of amplification has to be "dry dog turds," or "not good tone" or some other such nonsense. Too much good music is made on too many types of guitars and amps to justify poppycock like that.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Steve Feldman · Post by **Steve Feldman** » 20 Mar 2001 2:33 pm

Over-generalizing doesn't do anyone any good.

Having said that, and considering myself basically a 'sucky player' (but one who's is getting less 'sucky' all the time), I will say that I have 2 amp systems that I think are absolutely teriffic. In fact, they are so good, that even a sucky play such as myself can achieve less than sucky tone, even on a bad day.

'It's in your hands and heart', but I'd like to give the music store some credit, too.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 21 Mar 2001 9:28 am

Y'know, I never heard any dry dog turds coming out of Buddy Emmons' Vegas 400 that he used for many years. In fact I can't recall the last time I heard/saw him play through anything other than a Peavey.

A solid state amp, voiced for steel, sounds just fine to my ears. I wouldn't expect a Marshall (or most amps not 'tuned' for the steel guitar) to produce the sound most of us are looking for. I'm not particularly fond of the EQ directions they've taken since the Session 5, but most everyone I hear at the steel shows or in the clubs playing through Peaveys or Evans sound pretty good to me. I've heard a few tube amps that sounded lousy with steel guitar but don't attribute that to the fact that they were tube amps.

Just my 2 cents.

LTB[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 21 March 2001 at 09:35 AM.]

P Gleespen · Post by **P Gleespen** » 21 Mar 2001 9:59 am

The other day, I put my ear up to a dry dog turd, and I didn't hear a thing.

Sage · Post by **Sage** » 22 Mar 2001 2:15 pm

You can't hear it that way. Wires need to be stuck in it first. I reccomend reading "Electronics for Dogs". Wallace's dog Grommit has a copy, if you need one.

Moon in Alaska · Post by **Moon in Alaska** » 22 Mar 2001 4:23 pm

I use an Evans FET-500 myself, but I do think the old Fender tube amps were the best sounding amps back then, having said that, I think most builders of good SS amps, over the years have found ways to make them sound a little closer to the old "tube" sound. I don't think we could really say what is best, being a strict matter of opinion !! The acceptable SS amps are really tough and will take a lot more punishment than a tube amp.
As usual, this is just my .HUMBLE OPINION !!

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Brandin · Post by **Brandin** » 22 Mar 2001 8:46 pm

Yes Moon, you're right. Next time I'll just say in my opinion.
[This message was edited by Brandin on 22 March 2001 at 08:48 PM.]

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 23 Mar 2001 2:02 am

Other guys sound a heck of alot better than I ever will when they use amps that I can only get a dry dog turd sound out of.

I would never post any opinions about equipment based on anything but my own personal experience. Also I am only speaking of my own tone and not the tone that others get.

Bob[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 23 March 2001 at 02:06 AM.]

Bob Kagy · Post by **Bob Kagy** » 23 Mar 2001 3:19 pm

No question that Buddy Emmons gets an awesome sound out of his Peavey solid state's, as well as a huge number of other folks.

But.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but Buddy's black album - Emmon's Guitar Company - it's my understanding that it was recorded using a Fender Twin Reverb.

(Phaser not set to kill, not set to stun, just to mild reply)

Steve Feldman · Post by **Steve Feldman** » 23 Mar 2001 4:56 pm

Shields up, Mr. Sulu.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 23 Mar 2001 5:49 pm

At the time Buddy did that album I don't think there was anyone using Peavey for steel. In fact in 71/72, when I was in Nashville, Peavey was a dirty word and no one wanted to be caught dead using a Peavey amp. And that was a couple of years after the Black album was made.

That changed later, but that was the thinking in Nashville at the time.

Sage · Post by **Sage** » 23 Mar 2001 5:59 pm

Jack, I've heard that Fender never designed any amps for the PSG market, but the Vibrosonic sure seems to come close. Do you know what market it was intended for?

"She's running low on dilithium crystals, captain!"

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 24 Mar 2001 2:44 am

Sage, my comment was about Peavey amps, not Fender. Someone mentioned Buddy sounded great over the years playing Peavey's and then there was a comment about the Black Album being done with a Fender Twin.

My comment was there wasn't anyone using Peavey amps, that I know of, in that time frame for steel.

Bob Metzger · Post by **Bob Metzger** » 29 Mar 2001 3:40 am

It's true that tube amps generally make better distortion devices than solid state amps but I've heard some very, very good distortion sounds coming from certain solid state amps and other semiconductor devices (how about an original TS-9 tube screamer?). I like both tube and solid state amps, in fact, on my steel gigs lately, I'm playing one of each. Tube amps, when set up properly for steel guitar, can sound very, very good. They generally have more maintence issues and are a little heavier in weight than their solid state brethren but most tube amp fans consider this a small price to pay for the benefits and the vibe of the whole tube thing. For electric guitar playing, tubes have a big advantage over most solid state amps. Each type of amp has its place and function; that's where the 'art' comes into the equation. Remember, all records (CD's, too!) are made on consoles built around semiconductor devices, (except for one or two).

For you tube guys: I'm currently working on the Dry Dog Turd Mod for tube amps so you guys will be able to get that sound as well.

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 29 Mar 2001 8:04 am

Hi Bob, I've been doing the 2 amp thing lately too. I'm using the Nashville and my Twin, which is not too much more trouble since I've been hauling an extra amp for electric guitar anyway.

Seems to be a nice round tone.... the best of both.

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