Emmons PP tuning/setup help -- 4th string lower

[Sam Inglis]

I have taken a deep breath and bought an Emmons bolt-on. I've only ever dealt with all-pull guitars before so the push-pull setup is hurting my brain a bit.

Everything seems to be set up and working OK except that I cannot get the 4th string lower to go all the way to E flat. The raise rod is pulling taut and separating the two halves of the changer finger before it can move enough to lower a full semitone. If I adjust the collets on the cranks for the C pedal and E raise lever to give the raise rod more slack, I then cannot get a full tone raise on the C pedal.

Not sure if these photos make anything clearer! This is Day setup so the C pedal is the one at the end. As you can see the collets are right up on the cranks and the raise tuning nut on the 4th string is quite far our, that's the only way I can find to give it sufficient travel.

If anyone is able to advise I'd be very grateful!

[Roland Scholl]

Hi Sam, make sure the raise hook is in the lowest hole of the changer finger, adjust the pedal to raise that finger all the way, then tune the string to F# (pedal) and E (zero position). Then see if there is enough slack for the lever to lower to Eb; if not, increase the slack and compensate with a longer travel at the C pedal.

[Sam Inglis]

Thanks Roland. I'll try that.

By "the lowest hole of the changer finger" I assume you mean the one nearest the guitar body? Ie. the one that will be lowest when the guitar is upside down?

[Sam Inglis]

OK, I think I have sorted it at last. The raise was being restricted by the end of the lower rod sticking out. Allowing that to move in a couple of millimetres gave everything just enough travel.

This is like working on vintage motorcycles or something!

[Roland Scholl]

Yes, the lowest with the guitar upside down - but it seems like you solved the problem by fixing something I wasn't even thinking of: stuck rod. Glad it's working now!

[Dave Magram]

Sam, congratulations!
The Emmons push-pull guitars are the benchmark of great tone for many, many players!!

I'd highly recommend Clem Schmitz's bargain-priced booklet and DVD "Methodology And Practice In Pedal Steel Guitar" to any Emmons push-pull owner (especially someone who doesn't live in the States).
● Clem used to own a steel guitar store and repair shop in Minneapolis, then one in Nashville, where he worked on Emmons push-pulls owned by players such as Mike Johnson.

Clem’s 24-page booklet and DVD shows how to make simple adjustments to an Emmons push-pull--or even take the entire guitar apart and put it back together.

In his booklet, Clem explains step by step (with photos) exactly how to disassemble, re-assemble, and adjust push-pull guitars with several clever little tricks that would take a very long time to figure out--including a simple solution to setting the correct amount of slack on the 4th string in 5 seconds or less! (Just that tip alone is worth the bargain price of Clem's booklet & DVD!)

He sells the booklet and a DVD combo package on eBay listed as "Pedal Steel Guitar 83 METHODOLOGY P/P Book & 2008 2 DVD's Package" for just $21!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274497649883?h ... XQMmJROe-R
Highly recommended!

If Clem's material is no longer on eBay, try contacting him at freedomsauce(at)comcast(dot)net (replace the "at" with "@", and "dot" with ".")

Emmons push-pull guitars are very reliable and stable and I almost never need Clem's booklet, but it's great to have for the rare time every 10 years or so when some little Allen screw loosens up somewhere, or a string pitch change isn't happening the way it should and you have to leave for a gig in the next 30 minutes.

Clem is a very helpful guy; I've heard that if you are really stuck, he will guide you through the fix via Skype for a very nominal fee.

More info on making simple adjustments to Emmons push-pull guitars at:
viewtopic.php?t=205028


- Dave

[Sam Inglis]

Thanks Dave,

I can't shake the feeling that this magnificent instrument deserves a better player than me, but I am having a blast so far.

I've placed an order for Clem's guide, thanks for the tip.

[Dave Magram]

You are most welcome, Sam.

I'm curious--does your Emmons guitar have a wooden or aluminum neck?

- Dave

[Sam Inglis]

Hi Dave,

It's a wooden neck. The serial number is in the 2300s which dates it to the mid ’70s I think.

[Sam Inglis]

I guess I spoke too soon when I said this problem was fixed, as it keeps coming back.

I now have Clem's very helpful guide, but even so, I can't seem to set this guitar up so that both the C pedal raise and the E lower on the 4th string go far enough.

If I adjust the collars to give enough slack for the lower, then the raise is flat. If I then tune the raise correctly, there's no longer enough slack on the lower and the raise rod separates the changer fingers before E flat is reached.

The C pedal itself is pretty much at the limit of its travel, and adding extra travel doesn't seem to make any difference at this point. Wondering if I need to slightly shorten the C pedal rod so that the pedal is a touch higher to start with?

[Bobby Hearn]

Hi Sam, did you try adjusting the stop screw where the C pedal rod attaches to the cabinet?

[Sam Inglis]

Hi Bobby,

Your message made me check again, and as a result I think I have now figured out what may be happening.

I noticed that beyond a certain point, backing that screw out made no difference. I now realised that after that point, the pedal stops not because the tip of the screw hits the cabinet, but because the head of the screw fouls the metal bracket just to its right in the photo.

I guess this has only arisen because this guitar (a) is set up Day style with the C pedal on the left, and (b) whoever converted it from a D10 to an SD10 left the pedals in their furthest left positions. So possibly not something that often arises.




Anyway, I guess the answer is to replace that screw with a shorter one. Do you know the dimensions of that screw?

[Bobby Hearn]

Oh wow, glad you found the issue. Yes, I would find a shorter screw that will clear.

[Sam Inglis]

Well, that was a trip. I found a replacement machine screw no problem... and it made no difference. There still wasn't enough travel in the C pedal, and not enough slack in the system to have both the F# raise and the Eb lower on string 4 both going to pitch.

Scratched my head for a while and eventually figured out that the C pedal travel was still being blocked by something else. This steel has a home-made raise kit, and whoever made it had not formed the hook at the end of the pedal rod quite right. The hook was rubbing against the wood of the cabinet to the point where the tip of the hook had gouged out a little path, and it was stopping when the tip of the hook met the end of that path. So I took a pair of pliers and bent the hook round some more and that seems to have worked.

Phew!