Three way speakers?

Steve Stallings · Post by **Steve Stallings** » 24 Aug 2002 3:31 am

Why do we not use three way systems for our steels? Obviously, a 15 inch speaker is limited in its range. Why don't we have speaker cabs that can reproduce the entire range of the steel? There are some cabs out there that seem like they would be killer for steel. For example, we use 16 JBL cabs in our array. 8 of them are 2x18 and 8 of them are 2x12 with a HF tweeter. I know this would be heavy as all get out, but I'm really curious as to what it would sound like if you hooked up your power amp to one of the 2x18 cabs and one of the 2x12 with tweeter cabs. Another idea.... Mackie makes some powered full range cabs. I wonder how that would sound. Think of this... Keyboard amps tend to have a high freq horn. A steel has at least the same range and more!
I was going through some old SGW mags the other day and saw an article by Paul Graupp (sp?) about using multiple smaller speakers like the Bose systems. This also seems interesting. Why are we limiting ourselves to primarily a 15 inch speaker? Tradition?

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Steve Stallings
Bremond, Texas
Emmmons/Mullen/Remington
Evans

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 24 Aug 2002 7:49 am

Have you tried your home stereo hi-fi system/speakers?

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 24 Aug 2002 8:38 am

I practice at home going directly to my mix board into an Alesis RA-100 reference amp and Alesis Monitor Two speakers -- basically a studio near-field monitor system. If I could get that sound from ANY combination of amplifier and speakers, at gig volume, I'd be delighted. Most of those studio monitor systems aren't designed to handle mucho wattage, however. The 15s, especially the Black Widows, are very robust, roadworthy speakers. There are speakers and speaker systems that sound better, but they usually blow much more easily.

Once I've played a half a set or so, my ears are so fatigued I probably can't tell the difference anyway.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 24 Aug 2002 9:33 am

Hi Steve,
I recently got a Walker Stereo Steel rig (used, and just the head), and needed a set of speakers.

I own a small P.A. for which I have 2 JBL G730 model 2-way speaker cabs with built in crossover.

It's a small cab that has a 12" speaker and horn (the horn has a 3 position high/mid/low switch to control highs a bit).

They are 8ohm, 200W cabs so they are a perfect match for the Stereo Steel rig, weigh about 10lbs more than the official Walker Stereo steel 15" cabs, and have handles on top (I stack 'em and use a dolly to move them from the car to the stage).

I love the way they sound!

I borrowed a set of Walker Stereo Steel JBL 15" cabs from a friend who sold his Stereo Steel head and was looking to sell his cabs.
As much as I wanted to have the complete Walker Stereo Steel head + 15" cab setup, I couldn't go for it after A/B'ing them with the 2-way system.

Everything sounded clearer and had more of a sparkle, and the the stereo setup is great for playing live.

Sometimes I put them both in front of me, and run stereo XLR lines out to the board.
Sounds great where I am, I'm not too loud to the other players, and the Mains are controlled by the soundperson (who doesn't need to run mikes, I just hand them my L/R in's).
Note: Don't let them send phantom power to your Stereo Steel head.

Sometimes I put myself in a Steel Guitar envelope, with one in front of me and one behind me. Ummm, Yum, Yum!

Anyway...
These cabs are from the early 90's and are from the Performance Series, and most of this line was designed to go on tripod stands (which I have but haven't used with the steel, I do lean them back though).
Here is a link to the Performance Series: http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/G-Series.pdf

They had a G734 which was a slightly larger cab with a 15" speaker and horn, 2 way system, which would probably be great for steel.
They also made a 3 way system, which I would have liked to try for Stereo Steel, although it was an 8", 10" and horn... maybe lacking in low end.

Here is some of their current stuff: http://www.jblpro.com/pages/mi/mr_series.htm

The MR902 would be nice.
How 'bout that MR935 bay-beee!

But what I've seen most recently is a speaker that has the horn built into the cone area (EV, and Emminence brands) in a wedge cabinet.
I haven't tried them for steel yet, but think they would be good, as all the sound is coming from the same central location.
They were in a small wedge cab with a 12" speaker, horn built into the speaker, very light and compact.

Toys!
Fun Stuff!

[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 24 August 2002 at 10:48 AM.]

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 24 Aug 2002 2:41 pm

Steve: I was just going through my old SGWM's looking for Bobby Garrett's tuning for someone else on the Forum and came across the same article you mentioned. That seems like an eternity ago. I still use them and have four more used in a PA application as mains and monitors. At 400 watts continuous and a 20hz to 15Khz freq curve, they're hard to beat.

But as Bobbe knows only too well, they just don't sell. I'm a poet and don't know it.

Johnny Cox told me one time that a speaker system can have too many highs for steel guitar applications. I don't know why but I do know I'd respect his opinion to my grave.

I think Dewitt Scott still uses his set and I haven't heard from Bud Carter in a long time but he liked them too. If I was building as many guitars as Bud, I wouldn't be worried about any speaker. Maurice did some 1 on 1 comparisons with JBL's in a class room setting and said mine were preferred over the JBLs. Go Figger !!

Regards, Paul

Fred Murphy · Post by **Fred Murphy** » 24 Aug 2002 3:09 pm

I was always under the impression that you had to have an amplifier with bi-amp, or tri-amp capabilties in order for them to maximize the use of the different range of speakers. The low tones are sent to the bass speakers, the mid ranges to another type speaker, and the very highs to tweeters, which cleans up the sounds. I don't know of any steel guitar amp available with these capabilities. Of course I have been wrong on a lot of things.

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 24 Aug 2002 4:27 pm

Fred: That's true in itself but if you had a speaker that covered the full range, then there was no need for more than one amp if that amp had the same frequency coverage and the power to drive the speaker over that range. My units used only one TYPE of speaker and my Tube-Fex and DPC 1000 from Peavey do the rest of it.

Regards, Paul

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 25 Aug 2002 9:24 am

Seems like I remember the Peavey Session 500 having bi-amp capabilities.

Fred Murphy · Post by **Fred Murphy** » 25 Aug 2002 2:18 pm

I think what the 500 has is a bi-amp signal available for amplification at other amplifieers, such as a PA system. I think all internal signals which are amplfied to speaker levels are sent to the one speaker.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 25 Aug 2002 4:34 pm

Two points here:
1. If you try to run ANY electric guitar(6-string, steel, whatever)through your home stereo speakers, you WILL destroy them. Trust me, I blew a Klipsch Heresy back in '76, when I was in the army.
2. When you run a bi-amped system, you need two amps, separate inputs for each speaker, and most importantly, a crossover, to keep the bass notes out of your tweeters.
Just don't seem like it'd be worth the trouble, to take to the Moose Lodge.

Steve Stallings · Post by **Steve Stallings** » 25 Aug 2002 5:24 pm

Yes..... I certainly realize that a home stereo speaker is not capable, nor designed to handle the reproduction of live instruments.

I specifically am referring to systems like the JBL cabs which have a 15, 12 and a tweeter. These seem like they would make a great speaker cab. Most of these have built in passive crossovers or are capable of biamping or triamping.

Mackie is making some powered three way cabinets which might be interesting to try out. I guess I just am curious as to why we seem stuck in a 15 inch cabinet mentality..

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Steve Stallings
Bremond, Texas
Emmmons/Mullen/Remington
Evans

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 25 Aug 2002 7:48 pm

Steve: I don't know where it is exactly but last spring someone posted a link to an article by one of the design engineers at JBL and it was a nice eye opener. He tells about how the units first used by them for instrument amplification were burning out left and right. It was a completely new game they had to gear up to. I wouldn't think that just because they say JBL, they'd be good for a steel guitar. I have a couple JBLs here on my computer.

My speaker cabinets were based on an idea from the sixties that appeared in Popular Electronics magazine titled Sweet 16s for home stereos. I could not make the idea work for my guitars until I found speakers equivilent to Bose units in the mid 90s. There were none available up until then that had the power capacity or frequency spread that is needed.

Regards, Paul

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 25 Aug 2002 10:40 pm

Earnest's comment about home stereos had to do with what you like to hear in terms of a steel sound. If you like the sound of the steel through your stereo, you will probabably like a two or three way speaker live. I personally am not crazy about the sound of my steel through the board or through a hi fi speaker setup. High end response is over rated, IMHO. The steel already has too much in that area (again IMHO). It's a completely personal issue.